Comments on: Rebuilding Vampire: Humanity

By: Daniel M. Perez

Daniel M. Perez — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:17:38 +0000

@Tim Jensen I'm gonna certainly look at the as inspiration, though I also want to stay away from them as they are very much a proprietary element of VtM.

By: Tim Jensen

Tim Jensen — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:05:38 +0000

Then I think the Paths of Enlightenment could serve as a guide to making a quick-play list.

By: Daniel M. Perez

Daniel M. Perez — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:08:21 +0000

@Tim Jensen That’s not a bad idea, though I’d probably include a suggested list for those who don’t want to do that kind of lifting/want to take off playing. Thanks for that.

By: Tim Jensen

Tim Jensen — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:56:02 +0000

@Daniel M. Perez
I don’t think you need to define what the virtues are up front. Playing the game will do that.

The virtues of humanity might be shaped by culture and experience, and be different for every vampire. For example, a vampire born in 12th century France might equate humanity with traditional Christian values, but one born in mid-twentieth century China most likely wouldn’t.

Why not let each player decide what his/her own character believes humanity to be, and just task the GM with challenging those beliefs?

By: Daniel M. Perez

Daniel M. Perez — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:03:50 +0000

@Mick Bradley
Let me cop out here a little by saying that I honestly don’t know because I never played Werewolf nor am I conversant in that game’s central issue (not the eco-warrior part, but the more visceral beast part) nor in the werewolf myth.

The vampire is a creature that was human and then lost it, becoming a creature that goes against every law of nature, a creature that, in order to live, must destroy that from whence it came.

I don’t know what is the journey of the werewolf, but I know that perhaps you should talk to Stuart Robertson, because he was also a huge Werewolf fan that felt the same sense of “there could be more” that I had with Vampire and has led me to do this.

How do you see the journey of the werewolf?

By: Mick Bradley

Mick Bradley — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:54:30 +0000

I am pretty sure you’re dealing with this already … but as a point to ponder anyway, sparked by your new expression of humanity …

What would you say are some of the ways that a vampire’s human/beast conflict differs from a werewolf’s human/beast conflict, in the sense of making them distinct journeys with distinct thematic explorations?

By: Daniel M. Perez

Daniel M. Perez — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:40:50 +0000

Two things:

1- I came across this post while searching the Twitter hashtag #vampire, tackling the very same topic but for a different medium. I found it interesting.
http://www.loveromancepassion.com/vampires-and-the-search-for-humanity/

2- I think I have reached a definition of what Humanity is in regards to this game.

Humanity is an expression of the Virtues that define us as rational beings separate from animals.

I’m still deciding what these virtues are. I could go with the classical ones but these are too tied (very specific to) Christianity and I’d like to strike something more universal. I could use Aristotle’s but he has some that I don’t know necessarily apply. Yet I’m not too keen on creating my own list of virtues. We’ll see. But that’s the basic idea, which I’ll later expound upon.

By: Daniel M. Perez

Daniel M. Perez — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:24:19 +0000

@JJ Instinctively, I'm not entirely sold on variable target numbers for each aspect; I get what you're saying, though, and I think there's some way to get to that end result. I very much like the idea of Beast dice having something that makes very attractive to use, even (especially) with the risk they carry. @Tim Jensen You got it, Tim. Now I just gotta figure out how to express it mechanically. Joy and Sorrow, by the way, should be up sometime later this week (depending on how much study I have to do).

By: Tim Jensen

Tim Jensen — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:02:08 +0000

I like the idea of being able to roll both Humanity and Beast for nearly anything. If one isn’t enough, the player could choose to ‘escalate’ and bring in the other trait’s dice. Thematically, the risk you run for overusing the Beast should be severe and/or permanent, while the potential reward for using only Humanity should be fleeting.

By: JJ

JJ — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:38:50 +0000

@Daniel M. Perez
A thought came to me reading your last comment. What if Humanity becomes a cap on maximum number of diced rolled and the only way to exceed it is to tap the Beast? You know I like the idea of Humanity + Beast = 10.

I like the approach you proposed that the number of successes on the Humanity and Beast dice having an effect on when Humanity is lost/challenged. What if you take it one step further? What if the target number needed for the Beast dice is less then that needed for Humanity? Humanity target =8 but Beast target = 7. There is a strong desire then to use them for the numeric advantage but the potential cost in lost Humanity has to be weighed. This would give it more of a DRYH Madness dice feel.

I’m not sure where I am on some rolls being only Humanity and some being only Beast. I guess I would like to see more where you were going with Joy and Sorrow first…hint, hint, hint
.-= JJ´s last blog… Elric Explored – Part 5: Magic =-.