Next time I play VtM I know I will make some adjustments to the game but nothing too drastic; I will play VtM as it is, maybe only enhancing some parts already there.

Wondering if you’ve got thoughts on whether you’d stick with Storyteller or branch out into something else?

My personal inclination is that something less traditionally “crunchy” — I’m thinking Fate. YMMV
.-= Mike Lafferty´s last blog… The Heavy Lifting =-.

Yep. What Mike said.

There’s probably not much relevance for your design with all this Buffyverse paradigm stuff, it was merely my best reference-point because of my familiarity with it and because it is the only vampire-related paradigm to which I’ve been exposed that I’ve every actually liked. But since it isn’t a familiarity that you share, there’s no common language to use as a basis for clarifying concepts.

But yes, if you care to really get the gist of what Mick Bradley thinks makes for a good vampire paradigm and a good “human soul-vs.-inner demon” conflict, then you’ve got a whole lot of Buffy and Angel DVDs to watch.

Mick, I like JJ’s answers to your questions a lot because they vibe with what I would’ve told you in turn. Let me add a few things based on some thoughts I’ve had and parts of the whole I have yet to write about.

I like how you create that distinction about Mortality/Morality – it helped solidify things in my head when you finally distilled it down for me/us. I’m interested in a game about Morality, so now we know what to stay away from.

Up to know, because of the limitations of breaking things down into elements, not to mention dealing with only one concept (albeit the central one), it has created the impression that the fall is all there is to my idea, and this is not the case. I *want* each character to have something they are willing to fight for, to fight the external and the internal threats, something they are willing to more speedily damn themselves to make sure that thing is not corrupted/destroyed. This is their Joy. I’ll write more about this later, but know that such a thing is there, and it has that specific purpose you want: “slow down long enough [on the slide to damnation] to safely toss one or two things I once cared about off the slide into some sort of safe zone.” I’m very clear that, if this isn’t present, then this is just a masturbatory exploration of pointless nihilism.

Also know each character has also a Sorrow. I’ll let you think about what that could be (I have a pretty good idea already).

On the issue of the Beast:
Understand this is still a bit mercurial in its shape, so every back-n-forth we have about it helps me sculpt it more and more.
Let me ask you, did you listen to Canon Puncture’s Game Advocate show on Sorcerer? I know you own the game, but I want to reference something Jesse Burneko said there. He recalls a situation where the the sorcerer wants to hide, but the Demon decides to do something else, so the sorcerer has this option in game of hiding and letting the Demon do whatever, or revealing his position to order the Demon to hide. (Arnold references it as well in the comments.)

With that in mind, that’s how I’m slowly envisioning the Beast here. It isn’t a separate all-the-time NPC, but sometimes it does things that are beyond your control (thus done by the GM) and you have to deal with those consequences. I’ve no problem at other times letting you, the player, roleplay the constant fight between the human and Beast sides of the vampire psyche, but there are times when it will be beyond their control.

Does this explain it better?

Go back to the post on Humanity and read the last comment I made, in reply to Sam Chupp, to see some new thoughts on the mechanical aspect of the Beast in play.

However, two of the protagonist vampires (Spike and Angel) do regain their souls. Angel’s soul is returned to him as a curse — an act of revenge by a group of gypsies he had wronged. With his soul returned, he again has a conscience, is wracked with guilt for his past acts and attempts to atone for past misdeeds by fighting the forces of darkness – which often included other vampires.

Angel’s curse comes with the whammy that if he ever feels a moment of true happiness – he reverts to being a soulless vampire again. So — yeah — whole lot of guilt tripping there.

In his spin-off series a prophecy regarding a vampire with a soul who is restored to full humanity serves as an ongoing plot point/motivation.

Spike was a bit more complicated. Well, a lot more complicated, actually.

His character starts as a villain in his first season or two on the show. Eventually, he is captured by an X-Files/Dept 7 type government agency and implanted with a microchip in his brain that prevents him from feeding on humans — and he turns to fighting the forces of darkness pretty much as an outlet for his violence urges and need for excitement. Later, he (re)gains a soul voluntarily through a painful ritual after (arguably) being (possibly) redeemed through his own actions as a result his changing sides (thanks to the microchip). Spike’s character arc and whether or not he was truly redeemed seemed to differ from episode to episode in the later seasons of Buffy — and the series’ writers seemed unsure of how to handle him.
.-= Mike Lafferty´s last blog… The Heavy Lifting =-.

Also, just saying, this game should ideally work just fine for dark creatures of the night vampires as for sparkly oh-so-beautiful vampires; they’re both on the same road, they just look different.

* “WHY does the struggle to maintain Humanity matter to the player and to the character?”

To me as a player Humanity is the tangible metric that gauges my struggle against the Beast. It’s a gauge by which I can direct the flow of my character. I don’t see it as ‘how well I’m doing or playing the game’, but instead ‘where am I at on the fall’. As a character, as Humanity drops, more bad stuff happens as I start to lose control, and I have to ask how does my character react to that? Are there story elements that would work well to slow or speed the fall?

“I can’t save myself. Fine. Can I save ANYTHING else that matters?”

This is the crux of the stories that I want to play. I don’t know the answer to this until I’m in character and am challenged to preserve that which I love. I get the feeling Daniel’s Joy and Sorrow Traits will come into play here.

* “Note – I’m not saying the attempt to preserve must be successful – but it should at least be attemptable.”

I think we’re on the same page here: “When the fall is all that’s left, it matters.”

* “I’d like to think I could be trusted to effectively portray my character’s inner demon/beast/shadow AS WELL as my inner human.”

I have no doubt you can do that very well. For myself, the aspect that makes this a game more than anything else is having to react to the unexpected. The dice may betray me and I have to live (and role-play) with that. The Storyteller may present an option I never would considered and I’ll have to roll (role) with that punch.
.-= JJ´s last blog… How I learned to stop worrying and love Ars Magica =-.