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	<title>Comments on: Rebuilding Vampire: Joy &amp; Sorrow</title>
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	<description>DMPerez.com - The Domain of Daniel M.Perez</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel M. Perez</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4491</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M. Perez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4491</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4488&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Tim Jensen &lt;/a&gt; 
&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4490&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@JJ &lt;/a&gt; 
Yeah, I can totally dig the Will/Hunger dual relationship, good call. I&#039;ll do some more thinking and reading on this concept then we&#039;ll tackle it later on its own entry. That way Joy &amp; Sorrow can have their time in the sun (so to speak).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4488" rel="nofollow">@Tim Jensen </a><br />
<a href="#comment-4490" rel="nofollow">@JJ </a><br />
Yeah, I can totally dig the Will/Hunger dual relationship, good call. I&#8217;ll do some more thinking and reading on this concept then we&#8217;ll tackle it later on its own entry. That way Joy &#038; Sorrow can have their time in the sun (so to speak).</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4490</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4490</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4488&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Tim Jensen &lt;/a&gt; 
That is an idea I can sink my teeth into! :D
.-= JJ´s last blog... &lt;a href=&quot;http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Elric Explored - Part 5: Magic&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4488" rel="nofollow">@Tim Jensen </a><br />
That is an idea I can sink my teeth into! <img src='http://www.dmperez.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
.-= JJ´s last blog&#8230; <a href="http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html" rel="nofollow">Elric Explored &#8211; Part 5: Magic</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Jensen</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4488</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4488</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4484&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@JJ &lt;/a&gt; 
Hunger works, even if it is a bit less evocative than blood.  So why not give Hunger and Will the same inverse relationship as Humanity and the Beast? Less of one = more of the other.

And it serves the goal of keeping stats to a minimum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4484" rel="nofollow">@JJ </a><br />
Hunger works, even if it is a bit less evocative than blood.  So why not give Hunger and Will the same inverse relationship as Humanity and the Beast? Less of one = more of the other.</p>
<p>And it serves the goal of keeping stats to a minimum.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4486</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4486</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4485&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Daniel M. Perez &lt;/a&gt; 
Ooooo, I like that timer stat idea. Use of powers increases stat. Stat reaches X level and triggers.....Frenzy? Perhaps Hunger is tiered: events trigger at level 3, 6 and 9 (modifiers per level perhaps? 0, -1, -3 or some such appropriate thing) with automatic Frenzy at 10.

I&#039;ll need to dig the book out tonight and refresh myself with the way things were done to see if there isn&#039;t something like that already.
.-= JJ´s last blog... &lt;a href=&quot;http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Elric Explored - Part 5: Magic&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4485" rel="nofollow">@Daniel M. Perez </a><br />
Ooooo, I like that timer stat idea. Use of powers increases stat. Stat reaches X level and triggers&#8230;..Frenzy? Perhaps Hunger is tiered: events trigger at level 3, 6 and 9 (modifiers per level perhaps? 0, -1, -3 or some such appropriate thing) with automatic Frenzy at 10.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll need to dig the book out tonight and refresh myself with the way things were done to see if there isn&#8217;t something like that already.<br />
.-= JJ´s last blog&#8230; <a href="http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html" rel="nofollow">Elric Explored &#8211; Part 5: Magic</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M. Perez</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4485</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M. Perez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4485</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4484&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@JJ &lt;/a&gt; 
I have some stuff figured out, but not everything. You guys have actually helped me out figure things out a lot, truth be told, by the questions that come up.  :-)

Hunger... that&#039;s interesting. 

Frenzy is an expression of the beast trying to take over and not being able to (throwing a tantrum) OR of the beast taking over for a short period of time (well, ideally, though the tendency is that that time will increase as Humanity dwindles). Not feeding will certainly send the beast into panic (again, survival instinct) and quite probably trigger a Frenzy if the vampire doesn&#039;t voluntarily go and feed.

Hunger could be a timer-like stat that increases as time goes by and vampiric powers are used.

I&#039;m, overall, trying to keep stats on the sheet to a (needed) minimum to reduce distractions. But that&#039;s an interesting idea. I&#039;ll chew on it (no pun intended).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4484" rel="nofollow">@JJ </a><br />
I have some stuff figured out, but not everything. You guys have actually helped me out figure things out a lot, truth be told, by the questions that come up.  <img src='http://www.dmperez.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Hunger&#8230; that&#8217;s interesting. </p>
<p>Frenzy is an expression of the beast trying to take over and not being able to (throwing a tantrum) OR of the beast taking over for a short period of time (well, ideally, though the tendency is that that time will increase as Humanity dwindles). Not feeding will certainly send the beast into panic (again, survival instinct) and quite probably trigger a Frenzy if the vampire doesn&#8217;t voluntarily go and feed.</p>
<p>Hunger could be a timer-like stat that increases as time goes by and vampiric powers are used.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m, overall, trying to keep stats on the sheet to a (needed) minimum to reduce distractions. But that&#8217;s an interesting idea. I&#8217;ll chew on it (no pun intended).</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4484</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4484</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4483&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Daniel M. Perez &lt;/a&gt; 
If not Blood, what about Hunger. This can be a trait independent of the vampire&#039;s ability to do cool things (Blood). The question then is, what triggers the hunger and how is it satiated? Or is Hunger an expression of Frenzy or loss of control?

Sometimes I think you already have this all figured out and you doling out these tidbits to keep us hungry for more ;)
.-= JJ´s last blog... &lt;a href=&quot;http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Elric Explored - Part 5: Magic&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4483" rel="nofollow">@Daniel M. Perez </a><br />
If not Blood, what about Hunger. This can be a trait independent of the vampire&#8217;s ability to do cool things (Blood). The question then is, what triggers the hunger and how is it satiated? Or is Hunger an expression of Frenzy or loss of control?</p>
<p>Sometimes I think you already have this all figured out and you doling out these tidbits to keep us hungry for more <img src='http://www.dmperez.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
.-= JJ´s last blog&#8230; <a href="http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html" rel="nofollow">Elric Explored &#8211; Part 5: Magic</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M. Perez</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4483</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M. Perez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4483</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4480&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Tim Jensen &lt;/a&gt; 
Yeah, that was my thinking, at least as far as Willpower. I&#039;m actively trying to stay away from Blood being a numerical stat that needs refueling because I want to avoid at all costs the gas station effect of a vampire draining people just to keep doing cool things. Nothing bothered me so much in VtM as the feeding issue, because it was either a really detailed scene as I tried to drive home the idea of the monster that feeds on the living, or done offstage/handwaved in order to be able to get on with other parts of the story. That speaks some to my (in)ability as a Storyteller, but it&#039;s also a drawback inherent in the way that part of the system is set up.

All that said, I do want the feeding to be a feature of the game, so I&#039;m still struggling with that part.

Will, I think, is the right name for this resource that lets you add bonuses (not bonus dice, I think I will cap it at 10 dice) and which would need to be renewed by connecting with that which you are losing, be it your Joy or Sorrow (i.e. your Humanity).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4480" rel="nofollow">@Tim Jensen </a><br />
Yeah, that was my thinking, at least as far as Willpower. I&#8217;m actively trying to stay away from Blood being a numerical stat that needs refueling because I want to avoid at all costs the gas station effect of a vampire draining people just to keep doing cool things. Nothing bothered me so much in VtM as the feeding issue, because it was either a really detailed scene as I tried to drive home the idea of the monster that feeds on the living, or done offstage/handwaved in order to be able to get on with other parts of the story. That speaks some to my (in)ability as a Storyteller, but it&#8217;s also a drawback inherent in the way that part of the system is set up.</p>
<p>All that said, I do want the feeding to be a feature of the game, so I&#8217;m still struggling with that part.</p>
<p>Will, I think, is the right name for this resource that lets you add bonuses (not bonus dice, I think I will cap it at 10 dice) and which would need to be renewed by connecting with that which you are losing, be it your Joy or Sorrow (i.e. your Humanity).</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M. Perez</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4482</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M. Perez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4482</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4479&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@JJ &lt;/a&gt; 
Yes, Joy and Sorrow are to be open-ended traits, very much like Aspects (actually, they *are* Aspects in everything but name). I forgot to include some examples, but I will once I have this ironed out and ready for rulebooking. 

Your banking idea is very neat, and when you think of the traits as Aspects, you&#039;ll see that this is already built into the concept via the mechanic of tags. Going through some Joy and Sorrow scenes (as well as going through Flashback Scenes - more on those when I talk about Immortality) not only refreshes a dwindling resource, but also can potentially create tags that you can later use as bonuses during a poignant moment in play. So, dude, we&#039;re on the same wavelength here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4479" rel="nofollow">@JJ </a><br />
Yes, Joy and Sorrow are to be open-ended traits, very much like Aspects (actually, they *are* Aspects in everything but name). I forgot to include some examples, but I will once I have this ironed out and ready for rulebooking. </p>
<p>Your banking idea is very neat, and when you think of the traits as Aspects, you&#8217;ll see that this is already built into the concept via the mechanic of tags. Going through some Joy and Sorrow scenes (as well as going through Flashback Scenes &#8211; more on those when I talk about Immortality) not only refreshes a dwindling resource, but also can potentially create tags that you can later use as bonuses during a poignant moment in play. So, dude, we&#8217;re on the same wavelength here.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Jensen</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4480</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4480</guid>
		<description>The two obvious resources are willpower for the human, and blood for the beast. These seem like they should go together; either one might stand for the other when the character comes under stress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The two obvious resources are willpower for the human, and blood for the beast. These seem like they should go together; either one might stand for the other when the character comes under stress.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://www.dmperez.com/2010/02/18/rebuilding-vampire-joy-sorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-4479</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dmperez.com/?p=1862#comment-4479</guid>
		<description>I think between Humanity/Beast and Joy/Sorrow you are covering the core of the vampire&#039;s existance. Are you still thinking Joy/Sorrow being open-ended descriptors rather than a numeric value?

I like the idea of a resouce being refreshed by a Joy/Sorrow Scene, but I&#039;m going to throw out something that may or may not work as a possible alternative to a refresh for one of those traits. I&#039;ve been kicking around using a trait as a &#039;bank&#039;. Player calls for a scene and then says they&#039;re going to &#039;bank&#039;, or reserve, X resource points. Later, at a particularly poignant story climax the player can call on those banked points as part of a flashback. Let me explain with a cinamatic example: Speed Racer the movie.

Throughout the movie Speed has these little vingettes with various characters within his familial circle. At the climax of the movie, after he has depleted all his reserves he still needs to pull out more. He flashes back to each of these scenes and pulls out an untapped reserve and bang, he wins the race. This is a form of foreshadowing that can set up some dramatic scenes through those flashback touchstones.

Now that&#039;s a very heroic example, and you&#039;ve established that this is a tragedy. What if the idea is inverted. You can bank points, but you can only use them to complete a task (purposely vague here) IF SOMETHING SORROWFUL HAPPENS. Down the spiral we go. Depending on your intended approach this could also call for a humanity check.

I&#039;m very curious to see where you go from here. Obviously I really like where you are going so far. Great work.
.-= JJ´s last blog... &lt;a href=&quot;http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Elric Explored - Part 5: Magic&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think between Humanity/Beast and Joy/Sorrow you are covering the core of the vampire&#8217;s existance. Are you still thinking Joy/Sorrow being open-ended descriptors rather than a numeric value?</p>
<p>I like the idea of a resouce being refreshed by a Joy/Sorrow Scene, but I&#8217;m going to throw out something that may or may not work as a possible alternative to a refresh for one of those traits. I&#8217;ve been kicking around using a trait as a &#8216;bank&#8217;. Player calls for a scene and then says they&#8217;re going to &#8216;bank&#8217;, or reserve, X resource points. Later, at a particularly poignant story climax the player can call on those banked points as part of a flashback. Let me explain with a cinamatic example: Speed Racer the movie.</p>
<p>Throughout the movie Speed has these little vingettes with various characters within his familial circle. At the climax of the movie, after he has depleted all his reserves he still needs to pull out more. He flashes back to each of these scenes and pulls out an untapped reserve and bang, he wins the race. This is a form of foreshadowing that can set up some dramatic scenes through those flashback touchstones.</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s a very heroic example, and you&#8217;ve established that this is a tragedy. What if the idea is inverted. You can bank points, but you can only use them to complete a task (purposely vague here) IF SOMETHING SORROWFUL HAPPENS. Down the spiral we go. Depending on your intended approach this could also call for a humanity check.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very curious to see where you go from here. Obviously I really like where you are going so far. Great work.<br />
.-= JJ´s last blog&#8230; <a href="http://back2rpgbasics.blogspot.com/2010/02/elric-explored-part-5-magic.html" rel="nofollow">Elric Explored &#8211; Part 5: Magic</a> =-.</p>
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